Virgin of Medjugorje
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[edit] Definition
According to the seers, the Holy Lady appeared for the first time in Medjugorje, a small village in the former Yugoslavia (now Bosnia and Herzegovina) located 20 km. from Mostar and 150 km. from Split, on June 24th, 1981.
The first "apparition" occurred that afternoon in the area of Crnica hill known as Podbrdo. After this first one, many other apparitions followed for the six "seers": Ivanka Ivanković, Mirjana Dragićević, Vicka Ivanković, Ivan Dragićević, Marija Pavlović and Jakov Čolo. From 1981, the Holy Lady appeared regularly at monthly and even daily intervals, giving the seers messages of faith to be transmitted to the whole world.
Moreover, the Holy Lady gave three of the six seers ten "secrets" regarding future events that would affect mankind. These will be revealed to the world three days before their actual happening. One of them will be about a permanent sign (the supernatural nature of which it will not be possible to question), which the Holy Lady will give to us for the conversion to faith of the non-believers.
The Catholic Church still does not hold an official position for or against the supernatural nature of the facts of Medjugorje, probably waiting for the end of the apparitions. However, many believers and religious (including many Bishops) are coming from all the parts of the globe to Medjugorje, which has now received, depending on the sources, twenty to over forty million pilgrims and, according to the same sources, has now become the main Shrine of Christianity.
Many Bishops are backing the authenticity of the claims about Medjugorje, including the Bishop of La Réunion, Monsignor Gilbert Aubry and the Bishop of Split, Frane Franic. Three medical committees also claim to have proofs and evidence about the supernatural origin of the facts happening in Medjugorje.
On the other hand, the current Bishop of Mostar, Monsignor Perić, however, claims that there is no evidence for the supernatural in the phenomena of Medjugorje, holding the same opinion of his predecessor, Monsignor Zanić
Photo: the center of Medjugorje, close to the Church
[edit] Quotations
[edit] Discussion
[edit] The six " seers " of Medjugorje
Vicka Ivankovic
Born on September 3, 1964, was almost 17 at the time of the first apparition and is the oldest among the seers. Among her witnesses, she told she has been brought by the Holy Lady and together with Jakov Colo to see the Purgatory, the Hell and the Heaven.
Mirjana Dragicevic-Soldo
Born on March 18th, 1964, she has been the first to stop having the daily apparitions. She received all the ten secrets but, since then, she does not have daily apparitions any more. At the time of this writing, she has apparitions every second day of each month. She is married with the Italian Marco Soldo.
Ivan Dragicevic Born on May 25th, 1965, he is the oldest of three brothers. In 1990 he has been received by the former U.S. president George Bush with whom he discussed about peace for about half an hour. He received nine of the ten secrets. He is married with children.
Marjia Pavlovic-Lunetti Born on April 1st, 1965. Knows only nine of the ten secrets and has been visiting Purgatory, Hell and Heaven as well. Marija receives a short message by the Holy Lady to be told to whole community of believers every 25 of each month. She is married with the Italian Lunetti.
Ivanka Ivankovic-Elez Born on June 21st, 1966 in Bijakovici, close to Medjugorje. She has been the first person to see the Holy Lady on the Podbrdo hill. Orphan of her mother, she witnesses to have seen her mother in Heaven five times. On 28 Dicember 1986 she married with Rajko Elez.
Jakov Colo The youngest of the seers, ha was born on March 6th, 1971 and was only 10 at the time of the first apparition. Together with Vicka, he saw Purgatory, Hell and Heaven and received all the ten secrets. He got married in 1993.
Along with the six seers, two women Jelena Vasilj and Marijana Vasilj ( not relatives ), claim that they do not actually see the Holy Lady, but have " internal locutions ", that is, they see and hear the Holy Lady " inside them ".
Links in English about the seers:
www.themirgroup.org/briefhistory.htm;
www.medjugorje.org/avip.htm
[edit] The claimed solar phaenomena over Medjugorje
Various sources from television, radio and newspapers reported that several people claimed to have seen or even filmed strange phenomena of the sun that would have happened during their stay in Medjugorje. Moreover, some time ago a religious showed me a video tape filmed in Medjugorje in which you could clearly see the sun actually pulsing in the sky over Medjugorje. After having seen this video I have decided to do some inquiries.
During my first travel to Medjugorje, I interviewed many local people, asking them if such phenomena of the sun were legends or real and if they had seen any of them personally. Some people did not answer to me directly, others said to me that such phenomena were real and that they had been witnesses themselves now or in the past, and that anybody can be witness of these phenomena, you just need to go in the centre square before the sunset and look.
Another person, finally, said to me that the solar phenomena still happen today in Medjugorje, but that once, at the times of first apparitions in the ‘80s, they were showier. So, the same day at 5 p. m. I went, with my video-camera, in the centre square of Medjugorje and began to look at the sun, without being able to look for more than four or five seconds because of the strong light ( I was without proper eye protection, I admit !). Personally, during that day and all the other days in which I have been in that square in order to observe (and possibly film) solar phenomena, I have not been witness of any strange behaviour of the sun.
However I have noticed that often the pilgrims remained to observe the sun for some time and claimed that strange light or optical effects were occurring (some said the sun seemed to spin, other that the sun seemed to fall towards the Earth, a tourist said that the sun was looking as if it was “ duplicating “, another tourist said she had seen the face of the Pope inside the solar circle) while to me, that was filming the sun in that moment, it seemed that the sun was not showing anything anomalous or strange. After looking at the videos, still I can not see anything anomalous or strange in the sun.
My suspicion is that, in the cases I have been able to assist, those have been phenomena of delusion.
Here are some videos of my experiences during my two travels in Medjugorje (in order to download the videos – videos with size of more than 4 MB can take long to download if you do not have a broadband connection ):
video personealsole – size 2,5 MB - two tourists watch the sun, the woman pointed at the sun (like if it was spinning ? )
download here: http://www.gispre.org/listing/risorse/personealsole.mpg
video personealsole3 - size 3,4 MB - various tourists watch the sun
download here: http://www.gispre.org/listing/risorse/personealsole3.mpg
video personealsole4 - size 10,2 MB - an Italian family watches the sun, the daughter can be heard saying " si sta muovendo" ( “ it is moving “ ) and then " guarda come si sta duplicando " ( “ look how it is getting duplicated “ ) and the wife saying “ adesso sta pulsando “ ( “ now it is pulsing “ )
download here: http://www.gispre.org/listing/risorse/personealsole4.mpg
video personealsole5 - size 1,7 MB - the same family watches the sun, you can hear the daughter saying " si muove! "(“ it moves ! “) and another woman " non si vede nemmeno piú il sole " ( “ you can not even see the sun any more “ )
download here: http://www.gispre.org/listing/risorse/personealsole5.mpg
video personealsole6 - size 2,5 MB - the Italian family
download here: http://www.gispre.org/listing/risorse/personealsole6.mpg
video personealsole7 - size 3,4 MB - a group of tourists watches the sun, a woman pointed at the sun (like if it was spinning ? ), they take some photos video oregon2 - size 6.1 MB - two tourists from Oregon watch the sun, at the end of the video you can hear the man saying "the sun is spinning"
download here: http://www.gispre.org/listing/risorse/personealsole7.mpg
video personealsole15 - size 6,8 MB - two tourists watch the sun, a tourist tells me that the other would have seen the face of Pope in the solar disc ("she saw the Pope inside ", "she saw him inside")
download here: http://www.gispre.org/listing/risorse/personealsole15.mpg
About the video the religious showed me, I have put here some excerpts of the video, in order to download the videos, click with the right mouse button on the desired link and then carry the arrow on the voice " Save with name.. " – on the right of every link there is the file size – videos with size of more than 4 MB can take long to download if you do not have
a broadband connection:
Video 1 - size 11,6 MB - download here: http://www.gispre.org/listing/risorse/Filmato1.mpg
Video 2 - size 6,65 MB - download here: http://www.gispre.org/listing/risorse/Filmato2.mpg
Video 3 - size 6,65 MB - download here: http://www.gispre.org/listing/risorse/Filmato3.mpg
Video 4 - size 6,65 MB - download here: http://www.gispre.org/listing/risorse/Filmato4.mpg
Video 5 - size 8,32 MB - download here: http://www.gispre.org/listing/risorse/Filmato5.mpg
Video 6 - size 8,32 MB - download here: http://www.gispre.org/listing/risorse/Filmato6.mpg
Video 7 - size 5,00 MB - download here: http://www.gispre.org/listing/risorse/Filmato7.mpg
After having done some research, I discovered that in videocameras exists a mechanism called diaphragm which controls the amount of light that hits the CCD of the camera. Aiming the camera directly at the sun or at a very strong source of light, this diaphragm provokes the closing of the shutter diminishing therefore the amount of light entering the camera, this provokes the re-opening of the shutter increasing the amount of light entering the camera: this feed-back
loop generates a video in which it seems that the source of light ( the sun, in this case ) pulse.
To test this theory, I have aimed an old Sony Handycam model CCD-TR845E camera at a very strong professional lamp ( 200 Watt ) . The experiment took place at the local photographer's, while I was aiming the camera at the lamp, the photographer moed the lamp in various ways in order to provoke the phenomenon of the opening and closing of the diaphragm. After one minute of tests, you can see the lamp as clearly pulsing.
I suggest not to use any expensive camera, in order to repeat the experiment, because this test can damage the internal parts of the camera.
Video 8long - size 18,2 MB - download here: http://www.gispre.org/listing/risorse/Filmato8long.mpg
Video 8short - size 2,5 MB - download here: http://www.gispre.org/listing/risorse/Filmato8short.mpg
The horizontal lines and the defects in the right part of the screen in this video come from the download of the video from analog ( videotape ) to digital ( DVD ) as they were not existing in the original tape.
[edit] The works of the the three medical committees which studied the seers
The pages about the works of the three medical committees that studied the seers during the '80s and '90s have been realized by dr. Marco Margnelli, who has been member of two of them.
Even not thinking that the results of the works of the three committees can prove, by themselves, anything paranormal in the physiology of the seers during their ecstasies/apparitions, I personally think that the results of the three committees are very interesting because they show that the seers, during the ecstasies, are in an altered physiological state that, from what I have learned from my reseraches on the field and from the discussions I had with other physiologists, can maybe not be fully understood using the currently available medical literature.
I have done further research on the works of the three medical committees.
Psychologist and skeptic Armando De Vincentiis analyzed some of the works of dr. Margnelli and dr. Gagliardi in his book " Estasi: Stimmate e altri fenomeni mistici " ( " Ecstasy: Stigmata and other mystical phenomena " available only in Italian, Avverbi 1999, Rome, page 118).
According to De Vincentiis, about the similarity between ecstatic state and hypnotic state, " the conclusions of the two authors [ Margnelli and Gagliardi ] present several weak points" ( " Estasi: Stimmate e altri fenomeni mistici ", Avverbi 1999, Rome, page 63 ).
Moreover, author De Vincentiis suggests that we should reconsider the role of hysteria ( a well-known psychopathology ) in all mystical experiences ( quoted work, pages 47 trough 49 ).
I also spoke with a neurologist and skeptic friend of mine, member of the Italian CICAP. He, while acknowledging the importance of the works of Margnelli and Gagliardi, claims that the works of the committees do not prove that anything " paranormal " is happening with the seers.
Willing to have some independent opinion on the works of the medical committees on the seers, I decided to pay two neurologists in my city to speak with me ( I can not give the names of the two neurologists, due to privacy reasons ).
Both neurologists rejected the conclusion that the medical tests performed on the seers prove that anything paranormal is going on with the seers.
[edit] The works of the first committee on the seers of Medjugorje ( written in collaboration with Dr. Marco Margnelli )
The first medical committee to study the seers of Medjugorje has been the one of professor Henri Joyeux of the Hospital of Montpellier ( click here to see his web site - in French - of prof. Joyeux and here to see his resume - also in French ) and of Abbè Laurentin, with the help of doctors B. Hoarau, F. Rouquerol, J. Philippot, R. Volpilière and of Mrs. René Dubois-Chabert
The committee, during 1984, performed the following tests on some of the seers:
- Electroencephalogram ( EEG ) on Ivanka and Marija;
- Intermittent Luminous Stimulation during EEG, used in clinic neurology to test epilepsy, presumably performed on the same seers ;
- Electrocardiogram on Vicka, Marija and Ivan;
- Hearing test on Ivan, with prompt acoustic stimulation by a 90dB noise;
- other tests;
The results of the above exams have been published in the following books:
In English: Scientific and Medical Studies on the Apparitions at Medjugorje - R. Laurentin, H. Joyeux - ed Veritas, 1978
In French: Études médicales et scientifiques sur les apparitions de Medjugorje - R. Laurentin, H. Joyeux - ed. François-Xavier de Guibert - Paris, 1986
In Italian: Studi medici e scientifici sulle apparizioni di Medjugorje - R. Laurentin, H. Joyeux - Queriniana - Brescia, 1985
In conclusion, the committee states that ( pages 65 and 66 of the French edition ):
1) The apparitions are neither dream nor hallucination;
2) Ecstasy appears as a state where ordinary physical perceptions are suspended;
3) Ecstasy is not pathological;
4) [ Ecstasy ] is an subjective perception. This perception is more real than the one from the ordinary world;
5) Ecstasy moves the visionaries into a timezone " sui generis ", that is, different from the timezone " of the wristwatches ";
6) Calling ecstasy with other labels ( hallucination, unconscious emerging, ..) means nothing and contradicts scientific objectivity;
7) The negative character of the exams during ecstasy and the coherent reactions of the seers prompt the hypothesis of a spiritual ( and real ) communication between person and person;
8) Catholic theology underlines the particular character of this phenomena.
Among the facts which brought the committee to claim this conclusion, I chose those which appeared to me as the most significant:
1) on page 21 of the French edition, there is written that, during a test performed on the seers by Dr. Maria Federica Magatti, " .. a motion-picture projector of about 1000 W [ of power ] was moved in the direction of the seers, without provoking any change in the diameter of their pupils [this means the abolition of the photo-motor reflex].. They blinked their eyes, as from natural and spontaneous reflexes ". I searched with Google and Yahoo! about Dr. M. F. Magatti on the web but could not find any result;
2) on page 29 of the French edition, there is written that electroencephalogram performed on Ivan shows that " [ during ecstasy ] He does not sleep. He does not dream. He is in alpha rhythm: the rhythm of receptive wake, the rhythm of the contemplatives during the calmest moments ( when somebody acts or discusses he/she is in beta rhythm );
3) on page 40 of the French edition, there is written that, about the exam on Ivan's hearing abilities, " during ecstasy, conductibility ( transmission of the nervous signal ) remains normal [ .. ] but Ivan is without reaction from a [ prompt ] 90dB noise ( the noise of a piston-engine at peak revs-per-minute condition [ .. ] He will tell us, after the ecstasy, that he did not hear anything ";
4) on page 47 of the French edition, there is written that " .. [during ecstasy ] Ivan and Vicka do not blink their eyes".
As far as I know, currently ecstasies of the seers usually last three to five-six minutes.
To ask more information about these points ( some of them apparently contradict some of the conclusions stated above ) I contacted professor Joyeux.
Professor Joyeux replied to me as follows:
1) He never met Dr. Magatti personally and does not have her address;
2) He confirmed to me the details about how the hearing test was performed on Ivan. The hearing test consisted of a prompt noise of 90 dB. I could not understand from Joyeux's reply if there is any further evidence that Ivan did not actually hear anything, according to Ivan's statements;
3) He confirmed to me that Ivan and Vicka did not blink their eyes at all during the whole apparition, while they did blink their eyes soon before and after the apparition.
[edit] The works of the second committee on the seers of Medjugorje ( written in collaboration with Dr. Marco Margnelli )
The second medical committee of study on the seers of Medjugorje was organized in 1985 by Luigi Frigerio and Giacomo Mattalia, M. D.s, and included: Prof. Giuseppe Bigi, Physiopatologist, University of Milan; Engineer Saverio Brighenti, Electronic Engineer; Dr.Giorgio Gagliardi, Cardiologist and Psychologist; Dr. Paolo Maestri, Othorinolaryngologist; Prof. Marco Margnelli, Neurophysiologist; Dr. Raffaele Pugliese, Doctor Surgeon; Prof. Maurizio Santini, Neuropsychopharmacologist, University of Milan.
The Commission, during three episodes of ecstasy/apparition, was able to study three different seers:
1) visual evoked potentials (appraisal of the sight functionality );
2) acoustic evoked potentials (appraisal of the hearing functionality );
3) impedentiometry (appraisal of the functionality of the physical structures of reception of the sound in the middle ear);
4) corneal reflexology ( the reflex that closes the eyelids as a result of an external object touching the cornea);
5) pupil reflexology ( the reactions of the pupil in response to unexpected light or dark );
6) plethysmography (the flow of blood in the capillaries of the digital pulp);
7) respiratory function;
8) pain sensibility;
9) spontaneous and evoked electrodermal activity (appraisal of the sensory contact with the environment and the body).
All these observations, wider and deeper than those of the French Committee, but complementary to them, concluded with certainty that:
1) the seers of Medjugorje, during the apparitions, were in a state of consciousness corresponding to what the catholic mystical theology defines as “ecstasy”; that in this state, they had....
2) the complete loss of explored sensibility (blindness, deafness, dolorific anaesthesia, course and fine tactile anaesthesia);
3) the loss of contact with environment, and
4) very obvious sympathetic hyperactivity (cardiac, respiratory and emotional activation)
The loss of the sensibility was demonstrated by the study of the visual and acoustic evoked potentials together with the study of evoked electrodermal activity (performed on Marija and Ivan). Both light flashes and clicks, even though provoking normal cortical reactions did not provoke any electrodermal reaction. That meant that during ecstasy, despite the optical and acoustic pathways working perfectly, the seers did not "see" the light flashes and did not “hear” the clicks. That is like saying (with a comparison comprehensible to all) that the microphone (the ear) and the cable that connected it with the amplifier (the acoustic nerve) worked perfectly (produced normal cortical potential). In the state of wakefulness, prompt and unexpected stimuli like these, provoke changes in the electrical activity of the skin called
“psycho-galvanic reactions". This is a parameter very sensitive to any sensory stimulus coming from the environment.
As an example, when a subject is comfortably relaxed with his eyes closed and a pencil is dropped or telephone is ringing, very strong psycho-galvanic reactions are created. These are called "alert responses" or "orientation responses". That clearly indicates that the brain of the subject, even though the eyes are closed, is very tuned in to what is happening in the environment. The fact that, in the seers, the flashes of light and the clicks in the caps did not provoke these reactions demonstrates that, in ecstasy, contact with the environment is lost. However, since the nerve signals arrive regularly in the cortex but are not felt (in the comparison with the microphone that was made before, that means that sounds collected from the microphone arrived regularly to the amplifier but they were not transformed into impulses to be sent to the loudspeakers), it has been deduced that the loss of sensibility was due to a temporary block of recognition and elaboration of the signals from the senses. Another useful metaphor that will help to understand this point is to compare the experimental condition of evoked potentials to a phone call: the experimenter “dials the number” (sets off the flash) on the phone; the phone (the eye) transmits the call; the calling starts and, along the cables of the telephone line (the optical nerves) gets to the receiving phone (the cerebral cortex) and then you have three possibilities:
1) the called user raises the phone and answers (the brain is still in contact with the reality);
2) the receiving telephone answers with a signal of being busy (the brain, engaged in vision, cannot answer);
3) the called telephone rings but nobody answers because the user “is somewhere else” (that it is what happened to the seers of Medjugorje).
In the same functional condition was the tactile-cenestesic system, explored through the corneal reflexes, the psycho-galvanic reactions, the behavioural reactions and the dolorific system (explored through dolorific stimulations), the behavioural reactions and the psycho-galvanic reactions. We all know how very annoying a “small object” in an eye can be: not only does it annoy us but it also provokes rubbing of the eyes in an attempt to remove it(behavioural reactions), blinking (blink reflex), tearing (tearing reflex) and, without perceiving it, provokes numerous psycho-galvanic reactions in us. In Medjugorje, one of the investigators, during an ecstasy of Jakov, stimulated with a nylon hair (aesthesiometer of
Cocher and Bonnet) an eye of the seer without provoking any of the three types of reactions. Insensibility to pain was demonstrated with dolorific stimuli provided by an instrument called an “ electronic algometer", which consists of a small silver piston (similar to the push-button of a ballpoint pen). When they wanted to test the subject's sensibility to pain, it
was pressed on any point of the,skin so as to make it re-enter its lodging for long enough to activate a switch which heated it to approximately 50° C ( 122 °F ), a temperature moderately painful but not injurious in the short term. This stimulation made in a state of wakefulness, for example on one hand, provoked a behavioural reaction consisting of the withdrawal of the limb in about one quarter of a second (behavioral reflex reaction of defense). In ecstasy the small piston could be held on the limb for two to four seconds without any hint of withdrawal, and also, without any psychogalvanic reflex. This demonstrated that the subjects did not feel the pain.
The passing of the psycho-galvanic reflexes or, as they are called today, of the “electrodermal responses” (Galvanic Skin Responses = GSR), has been demonstrated to be the most important index in order to not only estimate the degree of contact with the environment, but also with the body itself. In the seers of Medjugorje in ecstasy, these losses of contact and knowledge were complete, demonstrating that they were in a modified state of consciousness. The study of the reflexology of the pupils, the heart rate and the flow of blood in the capillaries of the digital pulp (plethysmography) has evidenced, little before and during the first seconds of ecstasy, a remarkable activation of the sympathetic excitatory system (orthosympathetic hyperactivity), a sign that has never been evidenced in the past, both from the doctors who have had any chance to make any semeiological survey (the study of the signs or symptoms of disease) on subjects in ecstasy (mostly in the eighteen hundreds), and from a theologian who had fixed the symptomatology of ecstasy in:
1) alienation of the senses;
2) ecstatic rigidity and;
3) joyfully positive experience.
Orthosympathetic hyperactivity, confirmed by following the researches on other subjects, allows us to pick the starting moment of ecstasy, to differentiate western ecstasies from those oriental (ecstasy of yoga = samadhi) and to hypothesize on the operation of the brain during ecstasy. A short time before ecstasy, for example in Jakov, heart rates of 150/170 beats per minute have been recorded (dangerous frequencies) that, in cardiac pathology, are known as
“paroxysmal tachycardia” and require prompt therapy. Soon after the beginning of ecstasy, the heart activity came down drastically towards normality, so that the seer did not show any trace of this transient state of stress. Likewise sympathetic hyperactivity at levels of the micro circulation of the digital pulps was instead demonstrated by the nearly total disappearance of the capillary/arteriolar pulsations, a sign that indicates a vasoconscrictor response of comparable entity, again, to an intense state of stress. Finally, the diameter of the pupils during ecstasy increased (mydriasis) indicating an excitatory response of the sphincter of irides coherent with what in the cutaneous periphery provoked the
closing of the precapillary arteriolae.
Studies of the French Commission were designed mostly to exclude the possibility that the seers were simulating, that they were ill and, in particular, that they were either epileptic or hysterical. Beyond having excluded such possibilities, the tests allowed them also to conclude that ecstasy is not a pathological condition and is neither a dream state nor an hallucination. Considering that ecstasy is still considered by many as a pathological condition, a sub clinical condition of epileptic aura, a manifestation of hysteria, a manifestation of serious sexual problems or a state of psychotic dissociation, this conclusion has been very important.
The works of the first Italian Commission have not only widely confirmed this conclusion and the most important data obtained by the French researchers, but they have considerably widened them (certainly strengthened them) so that the conclusion that ecstasy is not a symptom of disease must be considered the main fruit of these researches. It should signal a clear turn of attitude of neurosciences towards mystical phenomenology. However having demonstrated that the seers of Medjugorje were not neurologically sick, neither hysterical nor psychotic, does not prove that the Holy Lady truly appeared to them. If we do not assert that ecstasy itself is a manifestation of the supernatural, the reality of an apparition demands tests that go much beyond the demonstration of the mental health of those people in which it happens.
The studies of the first Italian Committee were designed partly to understand the “nature” of the state of ecstasy or, in other words, to understand how the brain works in this state of consciousness. As an example: What are the mechanisms that allow the abolition of sensibility and, in particular, the abolition of pain? And, from this question, trying to answer the other one which follows: Do other physiological conditions (conditions of normality) exist, in which we find similar phenomena? And then afterwards, facing the remarkable amount of questions that derive from every one of the “signs” of the state of ecstasy, such as why sympathetic hyperactivity is being manifested, why electrodermal activity disappears, and so on. It could be said that investigation of the seers of Medjugorje have opened a new field in the scientific study of mystical phenomena. In order to continue to deepen these searches, Dr. Margnelli and Dr. Gagliardi founded, in 1987, the Centre of Studies and Researches on States of Consciousness Psychophysiology, in which they faced the most important problem in Medjugorje which is the difference between ecstasy and hypnosis.
[edit] The works of the third committee on the seers of Medjugorje ( written in collaboration with Dr. Marco Margnelli )
The Third medical committee of study on the seers of Medjugorje was formed by Dr. Giorgio Gagliardi and Father Andreas Resch on precise request of Father Slavko Barbaric who wished to eliminate any doubts, coming from more parts, on authenticity of the ecstasies/apparitions that were repeated daily for more than ten years. Scientifically, this control came as a precious occasion to repeat the observations of 1985, to deepen the psychiatric/personologic study on the seers and to lead experiments of hypnosis in ideal conditions. Researches have been executed on Marija Pavlovic, Ivan Dragicevic and, partially, on Ivanka Ivankovic, to whom currently the Virgin appears irregularly, at the " Casa Incontri Cristiani " of Capiago Intimiano (Como) during the month of April of 1998.
Other observations have been made by Dr. Gagliardi in the months of July and November of the same year, in Medjugorje, on Mirjana Dragicevic-Soldo that had and has ecstasies/apparitions on the second day of each month and on every birthday and has been submitted to experiments of guided visualization to be able to compare the psychophysiology of such conditions with the one of the ecstasies/apparitions of the other seers.
The Commission was composed by:
Prof. Andreas Resch, Redemptorist priest, theologian and psychologist, director of Institut für Grenzgebeite der Wissenschaft - Innsbruck and professor of clinical psychology and paranormology at the Academia Alfonsina of the Pontificial Lateranensis University in Rome;
Dr. Giorgio Gagliardi, physician, psychophysiologist and psychotherapist, vice-director of the Centre of Studies and Researches on States of Consciousness Psychophysiology - Milan, teacher at the Italian Medical Association for the Study of Hypnosis and European
School of Hypnotic Psychotherapy - AMISI Milan and member of the Center for Parapsychological Studies ( C. S. P. ) - Bologna;
Prof. Marco Margnelli, neurophysiologist, Director of the Centre of Studies and Researches on States of Consciousness Psychophysiology - Milan and teacher at the Italian Medical Association for the Study of Hypnosis and European School of Hypnotic Psychotherapy - AMISI Milan , President of the Italian Society for the Study of States of Consciousness, (SISSC), Pinerolo
Dr. Fabio Alberghina, general practitioner - Valbrona ( CO ), Italy;
Dr. Marianna Bolko, physician and psychoanalyst, teacher at the School of Specialization in Psychotherapy at the University of Bologna;
Dr. Mario Cigada, physician and psychotherapist, specialised in ophthalmology, teacher at the Italian Medical Association for the Study of Hypnosis and European School of Hypnotic Psychotherapy - AMISI Milan;
Dr. Rosanna Costantini, psychologist and teacher at the Pontificial Faculty of Educational Sciences " Auxilium " - Rome;
Dr. Giovanni Li Rosi, physician and gynaecologist at the Central Hospital of Varese - Italy, expert in hypnosis;
Dr. Daniela Lucini, M.D. and Ph.D., Research Center of Neurovegetative Therapy - University of Milan;
Dr. Virginio Nava, physician and psychiatrist, former head physician at the Psychiatric Hospital in Como, Italy;
Dr. Massimo Pagani, physician and professor of Medicine at the University of Milan and Director of the Center of Research on Neurovegetative Therapy, University of Milan;
Dr. Gaetano Perricone, physician and specialist in internal medicine at the FBF Hospital - Erba ( CO );
Dr. Luigi Ravagnati, physician and neurosurgeon, former assistant of neurosurgery at the University of Milan and teacher at the Italian Medical Association for the Study of Hypnosis and European School of Hypnotic Psychotherapy - AMISI Milan;
Dr. Gabriella Raffaelli, secretary at the Centre of Studies and Researches on States of Consciousness Psychophysiology - Milan;
Fiorella Gagliardi, former secretary at the Centre of Studies and Researches on States of Consciousness Psychophysiology.
The researches consisted on:
- Deep psychospiritual interviews; - Psychological/psychodiagnostic/personologic inquiries (Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory, EPI, Middlesex Hospital Questionnaire, Test of the Tree, Test of the Person, Matrices of Raven, Test of Rorschach, Test of the hand, Valsecchi Test of truth and lie ); - Neurological visit; - Psychophysiological studies of the state of ecstasy by recording electrodermal activity, the pneumograms, the plethysmograms of a digit, the pupillar reflexes, by the dynamic recordings of electrocardiograms, arterial blood pressure and respirograms according with the Holter); - Experiments of Hypnosis.
The results of the research have been published in: “I Veggenti di Medjugorje. Ricerca Psicofisiologica 1998”, by A. Resch and G. Gagliardi, Resch Verlag, Innsbruck, 1999.
The greater part of the work regarded the study of the state of mental health, the sincerity, of the personality and the psychospiritual attitude of the seers. Such studies, uniques by extension and depth in the history of the medicine and the religion, have confirmed that the three seers of Medjugorje studied in Capiago Intimiano and Mirjana Dragicevic-Soldo, studied in Medjugorje, were not hysteric, epileptic, psychologically weak and that they did not suffer from troubles of the sexuality, of the thought, of emotions and of the sociality.
Psychophysiological studies, other than having confirmed good part of the results of the surveying of the Second Committee, of 1985, in this occasion has allowed an accurate verification, by the study of the ortho - parasympathetic equilibrium, of the increase of the neurovegetative excitatory tone before beginning of the ecstatic state, a characteristic
of the Catholic Christian ecstasy that had not been identified in the past but that it has been revealed precious in order to establish the authenticity of an ecstasy.
Of remarkable importance, finally, have been the experiments of hypnosis. The several hypotheses of researchers of the past and the studies executed at the Centre of Studies and Researches on States of Consciousness Psychophysiology - Milan ( results published in: “Le apparizioni della Madonna: da Lourdes a Medjugorje”, by M. Margnelli and G.Gagliardi, Riza Scienze, 1987 ) demonstrated remarkable likenesses between the state of ecstasy and the hypnotic trance. In particular, various signs of ecstasy, such as the partial or total abolition of the sensibility or the muscular rigidity, can be inducted, by means of opportune suggestions, on hypnotized subjects. It was (and it is) therefore, important to try to induce one state of ecstasy on subjects in hypnosis and to compare the psychophysiology of the two states: if ecstasy and hypnosis are equal, the psychophysiology that precedes the beginning of hypnotic ecstasy should be equal to the one of the beginning of natural ecstasy (increase of the ortho-sympathetic tone with lessening or disappearance of the arteriolar pulsations in the digital pulps, lessening or disappearance of the electrodermic responses to sensory stimuli, that is, of the orienting responses , fixed mydriasis with disappearance of the reflexes of the pupils to the light).
In the previous experiments and partly in those executed in Capiago Intimiano, it has been tried to induce ecstasy“suggesting” to the seers the feelings that everyone of them declared to feel before entering ecstasy, such as heartthrob, gasping breath or intense emotion and then with sentences such as: “Now she is there, in front of you!” or: “You see her!”. With such method it has never been possible to induce one psychophysiology overlapping to the one which precedes spontaneous ecstasy and therefore, cautiously, it was concluded that, like theologians strongly assert, ecstasy and hypnosis are two states that have nothing to share between them. However, in one of the experiments of hypnosis lead on Marija, instead of by oral suggestions, it has been attempted to reproduce the experience that preceded the entrance in ecstasy making the seer listen, while in trance, the acoustic recording of the Rosary that she recited the day before waiting for the Apparition and, with great surprise of theinvestigators, part of the psychophysiology ( amplitude of the arteriolar pulsations of digital pulps ) turned out to be completely similar to those that precedes spontaneous ecstasy. Since other parameters (orienting responses, reflexology of the pupils, etc.) were not studied with sufficient extension, we do not have enough evidences in order to assert that mystical ecstasy is, in practical, one state of trance particularly deep, but the results invite to lead extended and accurate inquiries.
The Third Commission of study of the ecstasies/apparitions of Medjugorje, therefore, confirmed that:
1) the seers enjoy optimal psychophysical health; 2) the seers do not simulate their experience; 3) that ecstasy is not a psychopathologic event and that after 18 years of daily apparitions it has not provoked any damage to the psychophysical health of the seers; 4) that the ecstasies/apparitions observed in Capiago Intimiano in the 1998 were characterized by the same psychophysiology observed in Medjugorje in 1985; 5) that such psychophysiology is the same that has been observed in other ecstatics/seers, therefore so that ecstasy is one state of conscience physiological and not pathological; 6) that, also having obtained with the experiments of hypnosis a result never obtained in the previous experiments (plethysmogram verysimilar to the one of spontaneous ecstasy), still we have no proof that ecstasies and hypnosis are the same thing.
[edit] The statue of Christ
Close to the Central Church of Medjugorje, in the center of a small square, you can find the statue of Christ:
It has been a few years since people are noticing that on the surface of the statue several drops keep getting formed, which, soonafter, slowly drop along the surface.
Regarding this, you can see the following videos ( to download the videos, please click on the right button of the mouse and move the cursor on the line " Save with name .. " - close to each video there is the file size, videos with file size of more than 4 MB may require long download time if you do not have a broadband connection ):
video goccia1 - size 5,1 MB
download here: http://www.gispre.org/listing/risorse/goccia1.mpg
video goccia2 - size 2,6 MB download here: http://www.gispre.org/listing/risorse/goccia2.mpg
Many people collect the drops, mostly using handkerchiefs or syringes without the needle.
About this, you can see the following videos:
- video persone vicino a statua 1 - size 1,5 MB download here: http://www.gispre.org/listing/risorse/personevicinostatua1.mpg
- video persone vicino a statua 2 - size 5,1 MB download here: http://www.gispre.org/listing/risorse/personevicinostatua2.mpg
- video persone vicino a statua 3 - size 2,4 MB download here: http://www.gispre.org/listing/risorse/personevicinostatua3.mpg
In order to understand and to analyze the phenomenon, the morning after I waked up soon and, at about 6 a. m., went to see the statue. The statue and all the objects nearby ( lamps, crosses ) turned out to be covered by dew.
- video mattina - size 15,2 MB ( beware, huge file )
download here: http://www.gispre.org/listing/risorse/mattina.mpg
- video mattina2 - size 6,8 MB
download here: http://www.gispre.org/listing/risorse/mattina2.mpg
My first hypothesis was that the dew that deposits on all the objects and on the cross in the early morning could also be present in the small cracks and holes that are in the surface of the statue, which seems to be made of bronze.
Such dew could then come out from the cracks during the day giving origin to the phenomenon of the drops that come down along the statue.
Another different explanation of such phenomenon: the inside of the statue is hollow, as is in many other statues of bronze or other metal; in the inside of the statue it could be present some humidity that, as a result of differences of temperature between the inside and the outside of the statue, would then exit from the small holes/cracks present on the surface of the statue.
[edit] Related Topics
[edit] References
Further readings in English about the whole story of Medjugorje can be found at the following web pages:
[edit] Comments
For all contributors:
- Try to keep the "Definition" as straight and encyclopaedic in style as possible. Use the "Discussion" section for editorialising
- Use the references section for footnotes to books and other sources
